Upcoming

- Sunday - 9am
- Saturday - 6pm

7 Days in America: Palin Fades. Will Bin Laden Again Try to Pick Our President? Ferraro, Huffington, vanden Heuvel & Green

By Mark Green

Listen: 7 Days with Geraldine Ferraro, vanden Heuvel, Huffington & Green

The VP debate is over and the reviews are in -- Biden exceeded high expectations and Palin exceed low ones...she stayed on message, though not on topic. And now it's likely that, as so many VP nominees before her, Palin will disappear into small markets to work her conservative base far from the national media "filter."
So short of some Obama gaffe -- and the man doesn't appear to make major gaffes -- we're down to only three significant variables over these final four weeks:
^First, the economy is tanking so obviously that it seems likely to dominate the election. Per most presidential campaigns, it'll come down to pocketbook issues -- and again, McCain hasn't passed the economist-in-chief test.
^Second, the McCain camp keeps threatening to try to Willie Hortonize Obama with ex-weatherman Bill Ayres. This guilt by association technique has worked before, but the economy is too big and the hour seems too late for such a despicable, lame linkage. What next, Steve Schmidt -- an ad connecting O.J. and B.O.?
^Third is an "October Surprise" that forces the race to be decided on international, not economic, grounds.
Enter bin Laden? I recall how in March of 2004 I cornered Wes Clark at an event and asked why wouldn't bin Laden do something provocative to help Bush win relection since each protagonist helped the other -- in any Bush-Obama comparison, Bush was advantaged in America and bin Laden could better recruit al Qaeda. Being a discrete military grown-up, Clark wouldn't engage me -- so I launched a "Name the October Surprise Contest" on Air America Radio. We got thousands of listeners to suggest what might happen...and then something did. John Kerry blames his loss in part on bin Laden's Friday tape before the Tuesday election for focusing attention on the terrorist threat just as Kerry was starting to climb.
We can stipulate that Al Qaeda is evil but not stupid. We've watched them attack Great Britain right after Gordon Brown became PM and attack Spain just before their national elections. Since militaristic, conservative presidents are their recuriting tools, there's a very real chance that bin Laden or a local remnant will do something to derail Obama and help the warrior candidate.
While no one can exactly predict or stop him, there is something the HuffingtonPost, The Nation and Air America -- as well as all other progressive voices and outlets -- can together do. Repeatedly raise now the prospect of a terrorist intervention into our election because Republicans are more likely to fall into al Qaeda's trap of overreacting, witness Bush. If we anticipate it again and again -- in posts, on message boards, in comments on news sites, in letters-to-the-editors, on YouTube, on radio and TV -- we can help diffuse and weaken its impact. Then voters can say, not this time!
And as Katrina and Arianna explain below, Obama himself can give a foreign policy address where he soberly lays out how terrorists in the past like to test a new president or alter an election -- and how both candidates should not allow anti-Americans to hijack our American election.
Let's not surrender to political correctness and flinch from discussing this possibility because of how awful it would be. Fool us once, shame on you....
7 DAYS IN AMERICA INTERVIEW WITH GERALDINE FERRARO - October 3, 2008
GREEN: No one's been more in the shoes of Sarah Palin than you because of your VP debate against George H.W. Bush in 1984. How similar was that to this week's debate and how similar were the attacks against you as inexperienced?
FERRARO: Actually, I wasn't in the same position she is....After watching the Katie Couric interview, and the fact that she was [a character] on "Saturday Night Live" two weeks in a row and with commentators urging that she should step down, I wasn't in that position; her stress level had to be a lot higher than mine was. The attacks [on me] weren't huge. For one thing, as a member of Congress for six years, I had been down to Central America - you remember the Iran-Contra situation - we visited Guatemala and Honduras, I spoke to these people in Nicaragua, I knew the issues. For six years, I had voted on these issues, and I had studied these issues before I voted on them. Now, was it equivalent to Vice President George Bush's experience, as head of the CIA, member of Congress, and Vice President? No. But was I knowledgeable? Yes.
GREEN: And presumably you could have listed some Supreme Court decisions and some magazines you had read. How did you prepare for your debate?
FERRARO: As soon as I was named in July, the two people who came out to see me were Bernie Aronson and Madeline Albright, whom I met for the first time. She was my foreign policy advisor. Madeline, then a Georgetown University professor, was attached to my hip for four months. She became one of my closest friends, and she was with me every single day. They also prepared a book early, early on, and it must have been, Mark, maybe six inches thick. And what it was, was Fritz's [Walter Mondale's] votes when he was in the Senate, my votes when I was in the House, where the campaign stood, where we disagreed, where we agreed, where Ronald Reagan stood on all of the issues.
GREEN: Moving from 1984 to 2008, what do you think of the criticism of Palin that she was on message but not on point?
FERRARO: I agree, I think Gwen [Ifill] should have followed up. I was interested in two levels. One was, could Palin hold her own? And she did that, as a woman, as a candidate, she did that, she held her own. The second thing is, if you look at the substance of the debate, she didn't answer the questions fully. And she said, 'you might want the questions answered one way, and the moderator might want them answered one way, but I'm going to answer them, I'm going to talk to the people my way.' She was aware of the fact that she didn't have total command of all the facts, or that she wasn't going to be able to answer all of the questions. But, you've got admit, that's not a bad strategy.
GREEN: If she exceeded 'low expectations,' did Biden exceed high expectations?
FERRARO: Well, I think he won the debate, obviously. He was more substantive, he did respond to the questions, and he pointed out, when they were doing this maverick thing, John's no maverick!
GREEN: Style question. Was she hopelessly hamming it up with her 'doggone it' colloquial style, or was that overall effective with many Americans?
FERRARO: Well, it doesn't work with me. And I don't know whether it works in Middle America, with a lot of people who are those undecided, blue collar voters. You know, those are my people. They are blue collar, ethnic, Catholics, a lot of them are unemployed, a lot of them are in jobs where they wish they could have more so that they could just send their kids to college. I don't know if it would sell in Queens - I kind of don't think so - but, you know, maybe it sells in Middle America. But the point I have to make on this, Mark, is that sometimes you talk to those people and they say, 'Oh yeah, she's one of us.' And then they turn a round and say to themselves, 'but I couldn't be Vice President....'

GREEN: You were an ardent supporter of Hillary Clinton in the primaries and had some testy exchanges with Obama camp. Are you now fully supportive of the Obama/Biden ticket?

FERRARO: When you say 'testy exchanges with the Obama camp,' that was during the primary when they accused me of being racist, and I was outraged. Now [I'm for the ticket.] I think Joe Biden has made the difference for me. It took me a while. It was not because of what I went through with the [Obama] campaign; it was because I wasn't quite sure he was ready to lead, and I was kind of sitting there wondering 'what do I do?' But, you know, what ended up happening was, Joe Biden...and the definition of the Vice Presidency, and how it's worked ever since Carter/Mondale, you know, the two of them working together, and how it has been done in virtually every administration since. I do think that Senator Obama was very smart in picking Joe Biden; Joe Biden adds that experience.
7 DAYS PANEL WITH VANDEN HEUVEL, HUFFINGTON & GREEN
GREEN: Beyond content, did Palin in fact do well because of her in-your-face, aggressive style?
ARIANNA HUFFINGTON: Well, what worked with the Republican base is the fact that the woman is fearless. I hate to take one of my favorite adjectives and apply it to one of my least favorite people, but after the complete humiliation of the last week, she kind of walked onto the stage and she owned it. And as women, I'm sure Katrina and I appreciate the fact that she can walk on the stage and and not be intimidated by what people are saying about her. But the fact that that woman happens to be possibly a heartbeat away from the presidency is incredibly concerning. And ultimately it does come back to John McCain, and we have to keep bringing it back to him.

GREEN: What was Biden's best moment?

KATRINA VANDEN HEUVEL: When he choked up, it was genuine, and there was such a role reversal. I mean, I hate to say that that's what a woman candidate is supposed to do, but her tone deaf reply suggested how programmed she was. GREEN: Palin used the gender card and then Biden trumped her? VANDEN HEUVEL: Yes, she was going to talk about her family in the context of dealing with all the things as a woman that she faces: taking care of the family, and how people are disconnected in Washington and so on. And he was moved to talk about his tragedy when his wife and daughter were killed and he was responsible for taking care of two sons, both critically injured. He talked about how men are also part of the family, and that is part of what we are all fighting for in the larger scheme of things. But she just didn't pick up on it; she wasn't there. If there is a gaffe that we come back to at some point, it will be that, I think that may hurt her, and hurt her among women.
HUFFINGTON: Overall, it was really like watching two different games being played. It was as though he was participating in a vice presidential debate, and she was participating in a high school debate. So there was that disconnect all the time: 'why are these two people on the same stage?' And he had clearly spent years preparing for that moment, in some way or another, whereas she spent two weeks cramming.
GREEN: Won't the campaign, like most presidential campaigns, now end up a referendum on the economy, and isn't this a mountainous obstacle for McCain, since his party has been in charge?
VANDEN HEUVEL: When you come out of an economy where you've seen the worst job creation under George Bush of any modern president, the economic crisis has made this an election a referendum on who can get us out of this mess. Despite this flawed bill that has been passed, what's key is that Obama keeps talking about the need to address this recession when he controls the Congress, and how to kick-start the economy with a bold investment agenda and keep people in their homes. I think it's very tough for McCain, whose only response is this ongoing mantra of more tax cuts. McCain is the deregulator, a record that's very hard for him to run from.
GREEN: If you're right about the economy, there seem to be only two conceivable ways to stop Obama. First, the McCain camp is hinting that they'll soon launch a sustained attack on Obama's character: using, for example, his ties to Bill Ayres. Can that work?
VANDEN HEUVEL: Well, it's old news for millions of people who have been getting these smear emails from the McCain team and independent Republican operations, and that's why Obama set up a first-time-ever web-smear-reply war room. I think McCain will go dirty, I think it's up to the judgment of the American people. But it's also up to people like the Mayor of Chicago, Daley, who is a respected figure on the national scene, to come forward and to say what he said earlier, which was, 'Bill Ayers: ugly history, but he is now a respected member of the Chicago political scene.' It's going to be a fight. But I think again, again, with this economic crisis, people want to hear about what's affecting their lives, and I'm not sure how far this gutter express goes at this moment. It might have played better at a different time.
GREEN: Second, there's Arianna's fear of fear-mongering. How can we predict and diffuse any October surprise based on terrorism?
HUFFINGTON: Thank you for bringing that up. I think we should all start talking about it, writing about it, and making transparent what, I have no doubt, the strategy will be. I don't know what form it will take, but this is their strategy. This is also Obama's Achilles' heel - I'm sending a book to Sarah Palin about the meaning of Achilles' heel since she clearly did not know, because she proceeded to talk to us about her attributes - but that aside, his Achilles' heel in all the polls is national security; McCain still has an advantage there. Obama needs to really take the bull by the horns, give a major speech, and just begin to erode that advantage. He's not going to be able to do it at the last minute. He has to do it consistently over the next month. And he can walk and chew gum at the same time: he can talk about the economy and keep eroding McCain's national security advantage, [an advantage] which he does not deserve; McCain has been consistently wrong on key national security issues, starting with Iraq, and Obama needs to keep bringing that point home.

Comments

(120)

one poll does indicate...

that a terror attack would help mccain.

but bush is keeping us safe, i hear.

Yes, Chimpy has kept us SOOOO safe

that more Americans have died due to terrorism SINCE 9/11 than dies ON 9/11. But since most wore the uniform of our country, their deaths are acceptable and allowable by the Repugnican dogma, as are the deaths of up to ONE MILLION Iraqi non-combatants since our "well-intentioned" but poorly documented "intervention to quell an imminent threat" unfolded.

with all that welfare for the banks...

there will not be enough money to keep us safe.

i hear there are not enough inspectors...

to keep the ports safe from terrorist attacks.

do you have a link for that one million...

other than randi rhodes?

Ear to the ground and MARKET CRASH can be heard days away

Only puny secrets need protections.
Big discoveries are protected
by public incredulity.

—Marshall McLuhan

wrenchboy although poignant, if you think that was a rational argument in any way whatsoever, either you have no comprehension of what critical thinking is, or you are cognitively dissonant of the fact that you are off the scale of phenomenal idiocy.

There is little doubt that at the conclusion of the new 9/11 investigation all of your delusions will have been shattered, however you will undoubtedly retain the disposition that you are absolutely positively correct in your adherence to your fantastic delusions.

You pretend to be science driven, where if a hypothesis is disproved you proactively alter your perception and accept reality to concur with the presentation of factual evidence that correlates to the truth, yet you deny the existence of facts and evidence in plain sight much like those who contend dinosaurs and humans cohabitated 6000 years ago, or that Lee Harvey Oswald, James Earl Ray and Bruce Edwards Ivins each acted alone.

Of cource you are aware that the OFFICIAL REPORT indicates that American Airlines Flight 77's Boeing 757-223 N644AA 60-100+ ton 125' wide 44' tall aircraft with two 4 ton Rolls-Royce RB211-535 turbofan 192 kilonewtons thrust engines and indestrutcable landing gear including cobalt jet engine parts according to OFFICIAL DoD staff historians "vaporized" [ or morphed ] on contact with the Pentagon, RIGHT?

aerospaceweb.org/ ... q0265

NOTE:
May 2001: Medics Train for Airplane Hitting Pentagon
Pentagon MASCAL exercise simulates scenarios in preparing for emergencies
The Army’s DiLorenzo Tricare Health Clinic (DTHC) and the Air Force Flight Medicine Clinic, both housed within the Pentagon, hold a tabletop exercise along with Arlington County Emergency Medical Services. The scenario practiced for is of an airplane crashing into the Pentagon’s west side—the same side as is impacted in the attack on 9/11.

  • www.snipr.com/WTCcrashSimulation historycommons.org/timeline.jsp?timeline=complete_911_timeline&before_9/11=militaryExercises#a99wtccrashsimulation
  • www.snipr.com/MESCALmedicStrain historycommons.org/searchResults.jsp?searchtext=flight+77+engine&events=on&entities=on&articles=on&topics=on&timelines=on&projects=on&titles=on&descriptions=on&dosearch=on&search=Go#a0501medicstrain

BTW:

Senate Armed Services Committee
U.S. Senator Carl Levin (D-MI) Holds Hearing On Nomination of General Richard Myers to be Chairman of The Joint Chiefs of Staff
Speaker: U.S. Senator Carl Levin (D-Mi), Chairman
Washington, D.C.

SEPTEMBER 13, 2001

LEVIN: Was the Defense Department contacted by the FAA or the FBI or any other agency after the first two hijacked aircraft crashed into the World Trade Center, prior to the time that the Pentagon was hit?

MYERS: Sir, I don't know the answer to that question. I can get that for you, for the record.

LEVIN: Thank you. Did the Defense Department take -- or was the Defense Department asked to take action against any specific aircraft?

MYERS: Sir, we were . . .

LEVIN: And did you take action against -- for instance, there has been statements that the aircraft that crashed in Pennsylvania was shot down. Those stories continue to exist.

MYERS: Mr. Chairman, the armed forces did not shoot down any aircraft. When it became clear what the threat was, we did scramble fighter aircraft, AWACS, radar aircraft and tanker aircraft to begin to establish orbits in case other aircraft showed up in the FAA system that were hijacked. But we never actually had to use force.

LEVIN: Was that order that you just described given before or after the Pentagon was struck? Do you know?

MYERS: That order, to the best of my knowledge, was after the Pentagon was struck.

www.911truth.org/article_for_printing.php?story=20040814220906511

A Critical Look at "Liquified" or "Vaporized" 9/11 Plane Theories
— Dr. Rick Rajter, MIT
Although the KE of a plane can certainly inflict damage upon a target (whether planned or accidental), it is safe to conclude that there is not nearly enough energy to cause any substantial rise in temperature for the plane under the assumption of uniform heat distribution. The maximum theoretical quantity of "vaporized" aluminum, under the extreme assumption of all the kinetic energy being concentrated into a small sections of the aluminum exterior, is an almost unnoticeable 0.2% at 500mph. Therefore, it is scientifically infeasible that any liquefaction or atomization occurred and all or most of the material should have been recoverable.
www.tinyurl.com/42gpfr nomoregames.net/printer_friendly.php?page=911&subpage1=vaporized_plane_theories

Barbara Honegger, military affairs journalist at the Naval Postgraduate School, writes that NORAD's: “Gen. Larry Arnold, revealed that he ordered one of his jets to fly down low over the Pentagon shortly after the attack that morning, and that his pilot reported back that there was no evidence that a plane had hit the building.”

Colonel Karen Kwiatkowski, who from her fifth-floor, B-ring office at the Pentagon, witnessed "an unforgettable fireball, 20 to 30 feet in diameter," was called for stretcher duty. She describes “a strange absence of airliner debris, there was no sign of the kind of damage to the Pentagon structure one would expect from the impact of a large airliner. This visible evidence or lack thereof may also have been apparent to the secretary of defense, who in an unfortunate slip of the tongue referred to the aircraft that slammed into the Pentagon as a 'missile'. “

Standing in front of the Pentagon on September 11, 2001, Jamie McIntyre, CNN's senior Pentagon correspondent reported: From my close up inspection there's no evidence of a plane having crashed anywhere near the Pentagon. . . . . The only pieces left that you can see are small enough that you could pick up in your hand. There are no large tail sections, wing sections, fuselage - nothing like that anywhere around which would indicate that the entire plane crashed into the side of the Pentagon. . . . It wasn't till about 45 minutes later . . . that all of the floors collapsed.

In response to a question by the Vice-Chairman of Commission, Norman Y. Mineta, Former Secretary of Transportation, states:
There was a young man who had come in and said to the vice president, "The plane is 50 miles out. The plane is 30 miles out." And when it got down to, "The plane is 10 miles out," the young man also said to the vice president, "Do the orders still stand?" And the vice president turned and whipped his neck around and said, "Of course the orders still stand. Have you heard anything to the contrary?"

Problems with the DNA identification process involve contradictions with other claims made by the White House and/or Pentagon about the attack. One claim, that the aircraft was “completely vaporized” makes it doubtful that any of the DNA survived the holocaust. Another claim, that the aircraft was blown into little bits by the initial explosion, would imply that body parts would have been scattered all over the Pentagon grounds - which they weren’t.

It should be noted, that to this day, the only passenger lists made public have no Arab names on them, Bin Laden is not wanted for 9/11 at the FBI’s Most Wanted, and the only evidence offered by the government to substantiate their claim of Flight 77 having struck the Pentagon is a fuzzy video that proves nothing — indeed the flight recorder data released by the government shows that a plane flew about 400 feet above the Pentagon.

www.twf.org/News/Y2005/0307-Pentagon.html

9/11 Panel Detected Deception by Pentagon: Allegations Brought to Inspectors General
By Dan Eggen Washington Post Staff Writer Wednesday, August 2, 2006; A03

Staff members and commissioners of the Sept. 11 panel concluded that the Pentagon's initial story of how it reacted to the 2001 terrorist attacks was part of a deliberate effort to mislead the commission and the public rather than a reflection of the fog of events on that day.

"We to this day don't know why NORAD [the North American Aerospace Command] told us what they told us," said Thomas H. Kean, the former New Jersey Republican governor who led the commission. "It was just so far from the truth. . . . It's one of those loose ends that never got tied."

www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/08/01/AR2006080101300...

We have determined based on the Flight Data Recorder information that has been analyzed thus far provided by the NTSB, that it is impossible for this aircraft to have struck down the light poles.

We have an animation of the entire flight provided by the NTSB. The animation covers the whole flight from taxi out at Dulles... to the impact at the Pentagon in real time. The screenshot shows the very last frame of the recorded data. It stops at 9:37:44 AM EDT (Official Impact Time is 09:37:45). You will notice in the right margin the altitude of the aircraft on the middle instrument. It shows 180 feet.

www.pilotsfor911truth.org/pentagon.html

After the Pentagon attack, the video cameras and tapes at a nearby CITGO, the Sheraton Hotel along I-395 and Virginia DOT cameras were all confiscated by the FBI and they have yet to disclose any of the contents that were recorded by those cameras. Those cameras would have recorded what came in to hit the Pentagon and if viewed by the public, all the world would know that it was not a Boeing 757, American Airlines Flight 77, as we were told. All the world would know that Bush's assertion is in fact a huge lie.

They cannot disclose those tapes without indicting themselves that it was the U.S. government and select "private sector outsourcing" that did the alleged terrorist attacks of 9-11. In short, our government would have to admit that it is al Qaeda and that this GWOT (Global War on Terror) is fabrication made up to provide excuses for a despicable U.S. energy and war policy.

You are welcome to your own opinion, but not your own facts.

By ignoring the facts you diminish us all. So rather than have you committed and lobotomized, or reprogrammed, you will be relegated to the live among your own kind where very likely your fantasy world will clash with reality one too many times resulting in your being awarded your just deserts.
www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB54/index2.html

I rest content that you are a deliberate fool, for the time being. Dismissed PUNK!

BTW:
Should I loose my patience when we meet, I promise to use only my right thumb to settle the issue with the proper degree of decorum. That is unless it's determined that you collaborated in the execution of the attack on 9/11, in which case as per jarhead general orders, we'll deliberate and improvise a solution appropriate to the circumstances.

PS:
You are supposed to open the windows when you are using airplane glue moron.

"A vital element in keeping the peace is our military establishment. Our arms must be mighty, ready for instant action, so that no potential aggressor may be tempted to risk his own destruction...

Now this conjunction of an immense military establishment and a large arms industry is new in the American experience. The total influence -- economic, political, even spiritual --is felt in every city, every Statehouse, every office of the Federal government. We recognize the imperative need for this development. Yet we must not fail to comprehend its grave implications. Our toil, resources, and livelihood are all involved. So is the very structure of our society.

In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist. We must never let the weight of this combination endanger our liberties or democratic processes. We should take nothing for granted. Only an alert and knowledgeable citizenry can compel the proper meshing of the huge industrial and military machinery of defense with our peaceful methods and goals, so that security and liberty may prosper together."

~ Dwight Eisenhower, U.S.A. President, 17 January 1961

sigh...

okay... from the top...

1.) the metal of the aircraft in question wouldn't "vaporize," it would form friable and risable metal oxide compounds. Aluminum under high heat forms alumina, a grey-ish, lightweight powder. The same holds for steel, iron, magnesium, and more than a few other compounds. We cold easily lose these piles of metal oxide powder in the process of fire fighting. Occam's Razor.

2.) I'm not planning on leaving this board. Also, your bit about "by ignoring the facts..." is a rip off from Leo the would-be male. You are either ripping him off, or you are that sad sack of paranoia. Get a clue, sad sock-puppet, You've been outed.

3.) You should be very careful in your attempts to pose as a marine. Real marines might get very upset at you. I promise not to scare you too much.

4.) Why did you suggest a white carnation? It's so very passe.

5.) Why are you here? it's pretty obvious that few - if any - of the people here are interested in your fantasies. Are you going to get a toaster for posting your fantasies on this site? Do you get some sort of sick thrill from being proved wrong more times than poor old froggles? (BTW: Froggles, I owe you a beer. Feel free to set up a meet for your case o' beer.)

6.) It's painfully obvious that you have invested quite a lot of emotional energy into your fantasy. Feel free to invest a similar amount of energy into PEER REVIEWED facts, logic, and manners.

7.) As for your implied threat... Dude, from your posts, I'm pretty sure froggles or hatey could beat you down, straighten their ties, and go back to eating breakfast. Here's a hint sparky: If you are an actual marine, I can pretty much have you jailed, under the UCMJ (914 114 ring any bells?)

Of course, that's if you even show up.

From your posts, you seem really angry. You shouldn't be so angry. It's not good for you. Just because you are apparently incapable of using PEER REVIEWED facts, logic, chemistry, physics, aerodynamics, etc... is no reason to get as upset as you present yourself. Take a break. I'm sure that, given time, you can probably finish 5th grade. C'mon... give 5th grade another shot. If the other trolls can make it to 6th grade, so can you!

give me lever, and a place to stand...

And "this is an explosion!" is the falling of many floors

A debris cloud from tremendous mass collapse/escaping wind from each floor compression---oh king of the d******ts.

not to mention...

the explosive power of several tons of volatilized jet fuel.

worked example for the reader: 1 cup of regular gasoline (octane 87 through 93) when detonated can lift 1 ton up to 1000 feet in the air. There are (roughly) 8000 measuring cups to the ton. Standard jet fuel is (again, roughly) 3 times more powerful than regular gasoline...

According to http://www.boeing.com/commercial/707family/index.html
a 707 has a minimum of 15,000 gallons of jet fuel
according to http://www.faqs.org/qa/qa-2617.html jet fuel weighs about 6 lbs/gallon

15000 X 6 X 3 X 32 = 90,000 * 96 = 8,640,000 TONS of force.

Consider a hollow core building. The hollow box of the core serves as the only major weight-bearing system. The calculated force will DEFINITELY remove that weightbearing ability. Building now redistributes the massive load of a building. Building fall down and go boom. As an interesting (tho' grisly) side note, the devastation of these buildings could very probably rip away the roofing of the hollow core, allowing for the chimney effect. This in turn could cause any air between floors to be sucked out. There's your fabled pancaking.

Why yes, I *_AM_* a genius.

give me lever, and a place to stand...

not to mention...

the explosive power of several tons of volatilized jet fuel.

worked example for the reader: 1 cup of regular gasoline (octane 87 through 93) when detonated can lift 1 ton up to 1000 feet in the air. There are (roughly) 8000 measuring cups to the ton. Standard jet fuel is (again, roughly) 3 times more powerful than regular gasoline...

According to http://www.boeing.com/commercial/707family/index.html
a 707 has a minimum of 15,000 gallons of jet fuel
according to http://www.faqs.org/qa/qa-2617.html jet fuel weighs about 6 lbs/gallon

15000 X 6 X 3 X 32 = 90,000 * 96 = 8,640,000 TONS of force.

Consider a hollow core building. The hollow box of the core serves as the only major weight-bearing system. The calculated force will DEFINITELY remove that weightbearing ability. Building now redistributes the massive load of a building. Building fall down and go boom. As an interesting (tho' grisly) side note, the devastation of these buildings could very probably rip away the roofing of the hollow core, allowing for the chimney effect. This in turn could cause any air between floors to be sucked out. There's your fabled pancaking.

Why yes, I *_AM_* a genius.

give me lever, and a place to stand...

i disagree with arianna about obama showing his anger...

if he does that he will lose. america is still basically a racist country. it's just not as racist as it used to be. and white people are suffering so much they are willing to vote for a black man.

VP DEBATE

I have called this comment to Richard Greene last night on Clout and he agrees. I would like your take on this. Don't feel if Sarah Palin listened to the news and read newspapers she could at least get through a good part of the questions she is asked? Maybe if we were not in 2 wars, an economic crisis and an election a person can slack off and miss the news a day here and there but not someone running for VP? I am sure in the past candidates running for any public office read the papers and listened to the news. How can we think about electing someone who is not in tune with what's going on in our country and around the world? She scares me!!! Thanks. Marilyn from Welaka, Florida

The entire spoof

For those that want to watch it, the entire SNL debate can be watched here:

http://www.nbc.com/Saturday_Night_Live/video/clips/vp-debate-open-palin-...

By deanrdd October 5, 2008 - 1:59pm

Thanks for posting that, I missed it last night. Funny as hell!

McCain/Palin '08....Manchurians for the New American Century!

there is a list of architects who say...

911 might be an inside job. there are probably about 400 on that list. and there are probably about 2 million architects in the world.

Fully Loaded

I'm sure there are way more than two million. PBS put out a special where they went over the building plans with the original designers and engineers of the WTC.

The WTC was actually designed to withstand the crash of a 747 into the building. This was taken into account.

HOWEVER

They thought that if it happened, the planes would be coming from overseas and would have little fuel. The planes that hit the WTC were fully fueled with thousands of gallons of jet fuel because their destinations was thousands of miles away. That was unexpected. It was the enormous amount of jet fuel that brought down the towers according to the original designers and engineers.

Maverick simularities

Fossett and McCain share the same eerie fates --both egocentric flightjock blowhards, who both found themselves lost in the inclement weather of the moment, and hit an immovable wall of self-destruction.

McCain's inevitably added insult-to-inflated legacy has been politically devoured & pooped out by a pack of financial & economic coyotes.

The difference between them

...is that Fossett actually accomplished something admirable and memorable.

If all else fails, immortality can always be assured by spectacular error. ~~~John Kenneth Galbraith

No, we have an overabundance of heroes already

They' re busy driving they're oversized pickup trucks, and are not available for comment.

people's circumstances do change..

that's true.

i'm not holding it against obama...

mccain and bush are elitists too. i don't think you can become president unless you are an elitist or associate with them or take a lot of money from them. i believe bill's upbringing was middle class as well.

the interesting thing about obama are the photos of him going all the way back to his childhood. in all the photos he has the same optimistic smile. a very genuine smile.

so in obama's early years his mom needed food stamps. then he moved in with his grandparents who had a lot of money.

I never said he was a hero

I just said he accomplished something admirable and memorable. I'm sure if I had his bankroll I could accomplish something of a similar scale. Alas, earwax, I must make do with the day-to-day mediocrity of middle-class Americana, and be satisfied with knowing I do the best job I can at providing a necessary service to my community, no matter how thankless that provision of service may be.

If all else fails, immortality can always be assured by spectacular error. ~~~John Kenneth Galbraith

All right nony, fair enough

I like Fosset, and am sorry for bringing him into my dark humor attempt, but I couldn't see how to structure the punchline any cleaner, except to leave it unsaid, altogether (½ of my posts get self-deleted before shipment.... letters I've written, never meaning to send....) .I'll never know....

Anyways eyewax

I hold my admiration only for those who can get into outer space, without rockets.

palin pals around with traitors...

alaskan separatists.

Yesterday

When I turned on my radio yesterday, to WWRL, at 6:pm, there was another program on.

I didn't know that the program is repeated at 9am on Sundays, so I missed the program.

Can anyone look into this?

Harriet J. Brown
(Harriet from Bayside)

go to a search for "WWRL",

go to a search for "WWRL", and you will have the stations schedule. .You can click on "our shows" above and listen with your computer to live stream (program times will vary between source).

Geraldine F. was a little hard on Obama

I mean just look at the shape of what Washington leadership has left the future to unknot, its clear that nobody ensconced with a "lifers" desk job (like Geraldine herself, for starters) in that town comes out of the box with the batteries to lead this country.

Obama has a piece a work to manage.

Bin Laden's beef with the U.S. stems from his being snubbed as a player in the Middle East, after his Muhads did the dirty work of removing the Soviet troops out of Afghani territory.The West did not shake his hand as the hero (which he probably somewhat deserved) but treated him as the dirty little colonial street fighter (the British equiv. to a doodle dandy--probably a requested treatment by the Saudi Royals).

It is not certain how the Islamic world opinion will shape around an Obama presidency. But it seems he is a positive influence, if not a curiosity that they seem to more than hint at watching develop.

It is more likely we get a eleventh-hour Ossetia-like provocation (perhaps in the Iran outskirts?) from a Cheney (or somebody McCain knows with some spare time betwixt indictments).

When Obama was eight

I'm watching Palin on TV talk about Obama saying that he pals around with a known "terrorist" - William Ayers. Now, as far as I know, Mr. Ayers isn't currently charged with anything. He hasn't been accused of anything since Obama was an 8 year old.

I wonder if Mr. Ayers could sue Palin for "defamation of character". What if someone attacked Mr. Ayers because of the things Palin is saying. Could she be culpable? She IS calling him, publicly, on national TV, a "terrorist".

I don't know. If I were Mr. Ayers, I would sue the McCain campaign. At least threaten them.

The real danger is

That this shitty tactic could win it for Crash. It didn't take long at all for Rove's people to swiftboat Kerry.

You don't have to burn books to destroy a culture. Just get people to stop reading them.
---Ray Bradbury

The guy openly bragged about

The guy openly bragged about his involvement with planting bombs and never showed a shred of remorse. It would be hard to sue for defamation for calling him what he is, a domestic terrorist. He got away with the shit because of a botched investigation, that doesn't mean he wasn't involved in planting the bombs.

Prove that Obama supports terrorism

You don't have shit, which is why you come here late at night to post your drivel.

You don't have to burn books to destroy a culture. Just get people to stop reading them.
---Ray Bradbury

It's only 9 p.m. here, how

It's only 9 p.m. here, how late are you staying up to reply to me?

Where are the Annenberg documents that show the real relationship between Obama and Ayers? Oh, that's right, they are being withheld by their donor!

Here's a clue, Cloaca Breath...

No one cares. Now, why did McCain pal around with people who subsequently made a killing in the S & L bailout and stand to make another killing to the tune of 700 billion?

And, which question is more important to your future? Poor frightened little republiCUNT.

You don't have to burn books to destroy a culture. Just get people to stop reading them.
---Ray Bradbury

froggy

i invite you to do your homework on the Keating 5. I consider that a form of financial terrorism. I also consider Mr. Phil Gramm a financial terrorist, being that he's easily tied to

a) current financial meltdown through Gramm Leach Bliley Act
b) Enron 'Loopholes' through the Commodity Futures Modernization Act, which, notably, still haven't been closed.

where there is smoke there is fire. and between this work of art and Rick Davis, the McCain campaign is just about ready to blow.

McCain was "in the middle

McCain was "in the middle of" the Keating Five case in the sense that he was "exonerated." The lawyer for the Senate Ethics Committee wanted McCain removed from the investigation altogether, but, as The New York Times reported: "Sen. McCain was the only Republican embroiled in the affair, and Democrats on the panel would not release him."
So John McCain has been held hostage by both the Viet Cong and the Democrats.

Robert Bennett, Clinton's attorney, was a special counsel to the senate ethics committee, at the time of Keating affair had this to say:
"First, I should tell your listeners I'm a registered Democrat, so I'm not on (McCain's) side of a lot of issues. But I investigated John McCain for a year and a half, at least, when I was special counsel to the Senate Ethics Committee in the Keating Five. ... And if there is one thing I am absolutely confident of, it is John McCain is an honest man. I recommended to the Senate Ethics Committee that he be cut out of the case, that there was no evidence against him."

I would think, as the person who investigated the matter, he would know more about it than any of you.

By momofukuOctober 6, 2008 - 8:41am

Look at the little plagiarist go! Have you ever had a thought that was all your own? You're pathetic.

Support the Troops.
End the Occupation.

By Guy Fawkes October 6, 2008 - 1:37pm

He always takes quotes that he picked up from who knows where, and posts them without a supporting link just in case he is taking the quote out of context. He must've forgotten how clever (and tenacious!) some here are at finding the source.

Either that or hatey just hasn't learned how to post a link yet.

McCain/Palin '08....Manchurians for the New American Century!

The democrat that lead the

The democrat that lead the investigation said McCain did nothing wrong.

"where there is smoke there is fire" you say, unless it's a democrat.

He even called McCain an honest man.

But what does he know. After all, he was Clinton's attorney during the impeachment thing.

For Christ's sake get a room!

I mean, yes. Gay sex is now legal in every state in the union. But that doesn't mean you have to flaunt your kinky homosexual desires all over the blog.

You don't have to burn books to destroy a culture. Just get people to stop reading them.
---Ray Bradbury

William Ayers - do a favor for McCain. Get him into the news.

Now if William Ayers really wanted to do John McCain a favor, he would sue Sarah Palin for defamation a character. Yea, that would be a "big" favor for John McCain. It would get McCain in the news.

You know that the news media would ask Ayers his Obama connection. All he would need to say is, "I live in Senator Obama's district and I gave a fundraiser because he is the Democratic nominee, but I barely know him. As a Democrat I support him and we live in the same neighborhood, but we are no more than acquaintances. I resent that John McCain and Sarah Palin would put my life in danger to score political points against their opponent.

If William Ayers gets a single death threat, it will be because of Palin.

Palin hearts McVeigh?

Timothy McVeigh and Terry Nichols, the homegrown seperatist/terrorist types that did the Oklahoma bombing in 1995, when Palin was the same adult age and of like intrerests...

Someone needs to ask hotpants if she still has the wets for her "folksy" patriot heroes, like McVeigh.

palin loved mcveigh?

link?

search:

"Sarah Palin Timothy McVeigh lovers University of Idaho "

(She's faking her college experience too)

look, if you saw the link...

why don't you just post it?

it is not wise to make stuff up...

that's what repubs do.

and arianna is absolutely wrong...

when she advises obama to show his anger. would be a huge mistake in this essentially racist country. but he should counter-attack the stuff they are throwing at him about ayers.

the best refute is to point out the negative associations of palin and mccain, which are many.

remember hannity implying he had some...

damning video that would destroy obama's campaign. hannity lied.

By scottso360-- you AW the weakest link.

http://airamerica.com/comment/reply/87148/490731

you AW the weakest link... and the missing one too

ya baboon's butt.
Get off my blog.

palin is linked to traitors...

otherwise known as alaskan separatists.