Nationalize GM: Or at Least Think About It

With the U.S. government offering trillions of dollars in supports for the financial sector, it is startling to witness the casual way in which many policy makers and opinion leaders suggest the U.S. auto companies should be allowed to go bankrupt.
In considerable part, this attitude reflects an anti-union and anti-blue collar animus. It also reflects the diminished economic power of what was formerly known as the Big Three (General Motors, Ford, Chrysler).
The stakes are too high for policy to be influenced by misinformation and ideological bias. The auto companies need to be saved, on terms that protect workers and communities, and advance public objectives. Congress and the country should be debating those terms, not dithering with unrealistic discussions of bankruptcy or demands to reduce already shrunken union wages and benefits.
How can we look at these issues sensibly?
First, one must note the awesome disparity in treatment for the auto industry and Wall Street. Government agencies have thrown literally trillions of dollars at the financial sector, with very light conditions, and virtually no discussion of industry salary structures (aside from limited restraints on top executive compensation). By contrast, there has been endless fulmination about supposedly excessively generous wages for unionized auto workers, and much more severe financial and oversight conditions proposed for an industry bailout.
Second, the costs of inaction to support the auto industry dwarf the cost of a bailout -- even if much more than the requested $25 billion is needed. The industrial Midwest has already been hollowed out by deindustrialization. Auto industry bankruptcy would be a crushing blow. A complete collapse of the U.S. auto companies would cost 3 million jobs -- about 240,000 employees of the companies, a million supplier jobs, and 1.7 million jobs lost from the overall economic effect -- according to the nonprofit Center for Automotive Research. In this scenario, the federal government would lose $60 billion in tax revenues and other costs in the first year alone. Even assuming something less than a complete collapse, costs would be devastating. And, as economist Thomas Palley has noted, industry bankruptcies would dramatically worsen the financial crisis.
Third, the idea that United Auto Worker members are receiving exorbitant wages putting the U.S. auto companies at competitive disadvantage is a lie.
In general, the Japanese plants in the United States ("transplants") pay wages comparable to those at unionized U.S. facilities. This has been central to their anti-union strategy. In some recent years, workers at the transplants have actually made more than their counterparts at the Big Three, thanks to profit-sharing deals.
The Big Three employers do have nontrivial healthcare and pension "legacy" costs for retirees, and this is the main employee-related difference in cost structure (the other is more generous healthcare for current Big Three workers).
It is true that, historically, auto industry jobs have paid well. Going forward, however, this will be less and less true. The concessionary UAW 2007 contracts call for many new hires to start at $14 an hour, and the UAW is preparing to offer even further concessions.
Fourth, manufacturing wages and salaries don't contribute much to the cost of a car. Total labor costs are less than 10 percent of list price. If UAW workers donated their time and all savings were passed on to consumers, it would only lower the cost of a car by $2,400.
Fifth, although the Big Three have done just about everything possible over the last decades to undermine their strength -- including making disastrous long-term product mix choices, and fighting against fuel efficiency standards -- but the proximate cause of their desperate status is the economic crisis. It is not true, as has been frequently suggested, that the Japanese companies are doing just fine. Overall auto sales in the United States have fallen by more than a third in just a year, and Toyota, Honda and Nissan have seen drops of 27 percent, 22 percent and 35 percent. It is true that the Japanese companies have a stronger base and are better prepared to weather the storm. But the storm is pouring rain on everyone.
Sixth, bankruptcy is no answer for fixing what ails the industry. It is almost certainly true, as the industry argues, that consumers will refuse, or at least be very reluctant, to buy cars from a company in or recently emerged from bankruptcy. Would you?
But at least as important for those who want to see the industry aggressively adopt fuel efficient and zero carbon emission technologies is this: Bankruptcy would limit the automakers' flexibility, and make it much harder for them to make expensive, long-term investment decisions. This is particularly true while oil prices are depressed. Things were different six months ago (and likely will be again in the not-distant future), but right now the market signals are wrong for investments in energy efficiency.
Focusing on the imperative to rescue the industry, there are two rational policy responses.
One is to give the industry loans and other supports, with tight conditions. Under consideration now in Congress is an oversight structure that would give the government authority to veto any investment over $25 million. In contrast to the free hand given to Wall Street, this would help ensure government funds are not diverted into inappropriate purposes. The existing proposal would also require the government be paid back with interest, and/or the right to benefit from subsequent improvements in company share value.
But more should be done. There should be requirements that the bailout beneficiaries invest in energy efficiency and safety technologies, with demands that they do much more than required by existing law. To give them a level playing field, these improved standards should be adopted as law, and required of all auto companies. And protections should be built in to protect workers' interests -- a key objective should be to preserve good-paying jobs, not drive everyone to Wal-Mart wages
The second rational policy approach is simply to nationalize the companies. General Motors now has a market capitalization of $2.8 billion. Ford's market value is $6.1 billion. These are relatively small amounts compared to the $25 billion the companies are requesting -- and they are likely to come back for more later.
The government has certain advantages over the companies. It can access capital more cheaply, for example.
The biggest advantage of buying the companies is that it would enable the public to exert control over the companies commensurate with its investment. There would be no need to negotiate with management, or carefully monitor managerial actions, to review 9-point plans for viability, or create incentives to have them invest in fuel-efficient technology. It would make it possible to undertake long-term, transformative investments in R&D and new transportation technologies, irrespective of today's oil price.
It is true that nationalizing the companies implies a commitment to support them despite unknown future challenges. But a commitment of $25 billion itself implies a readiness to do more if necessary, as it likely will be.
On the other hand, nationalizing the companies would entail many complications and difficulties, including managing relations with workers and plants around the world, fair dealing with suppliers and workers at suppliers, and the inherent complexity of running multinational auto companies.
Is a true nationalization the best option? Maybe, maybe not.
But the public would be a lot better off if there could be a serious discussion of the reasonable policy choices, and a lot less breath wasted on overt and disguised attacks on unionized blue-collar workers.
Originally posted via CommonDreams
- FILED UNDER: Guest Blogger, Bailout, big three, Chrysler, Economic Crisis, Ford, General Motors, nationalization, socialism
- December 4, 2008








There must be strict controls on Automakers
not people bitching about union wages. This is a good time for Congress to develop the strict control methods sadly lacking in the shameful Wall Street giveaway.
In the meantime Paulson is working feverishly to give the rest of the 700 billion to his friends and neighbors on Wall St.
Ain't this country wonderful? Mercedes for Wall Street and no money or help for the unemployed.
CoyoteMan
- Email this page
By CoyoteManDecember 4, 2008 - 2:39pmLOBBY BREAKING! FOR YOUR SECURITY
Break up K St. You know, where the waste and corruption is.
How many $$$ billions are spent lobbying congress? Anyone? Where does that money come from? How much money are the 10k plus lobbiest paid? A lot, yes. And consumer prices go up to pay for it all.
With such a terrible system being displayed year in and year out by the congress, media and lobbiest is it any wonder we are in this mess?
How much did ExxonMobil spend to defend their irresponsible behavior known as the Exxon Valdez over the 16 years of litigation? Just a little less than the $500 million dollar fine? Probably. Would it be to hard, Mr. Congressman to change the law that allows for cost of litigation to be written off as a loss or as a cost of business? No I don't think it would be. Strap them on and do something to balance out our country and your representation or there lack of.
I can't remember the last time the US Corporations Electoral Year was, but I do remember the last US CITIZENS Election was. 2008.
Keep the Big Three. Fire any executive working there for more than the last 12 months as they have vehemently failed their company, their shareholders and their country.
Bas
- Email this page
By BastiatDecember 4, 2008 - 3:07pmHow many billions
were spent 2006-2008 to elect Barazck Obama and for John McSame to go down to defeat? Except for a precious few (most on this blog or blogs like this), the majority of Americans vote based on emotion--whether they're pissed off about something, whether they're scared, or which candidate they'd like to have a beer with. So let's stop wasting BIILYuns of dollars on campaigns and invest that money instead into infrastrucutre recovery--which will stimulate spending and auto buying and a whole lot else.
- Email this page
By blogbobDecember 4, 2008 - 11:22pmNationalize it? I don't know about that
What so the next Reagan or Bush or Clinton can offshore or outsource the whole thing? Bush43 outsourced his own Presidential Election Campaign call center.
Does anyone think that these loonies wouldn't do it to a Nationalized Corp?
In a heart beat.
Bas
- Email this page
By BastiatDecember 4, 2008 - 3:10pmIt's not quite that complicated
Sure, nationalization will have unforeseen complications. Any plan will. However, taking control of the companies is just a matter of the government buying all the stock, like when one company buys another. The purchased company's board accepts the buyout, and the stock gets converted to cash. Stockholders won't get much given how far the stock has fallen, but that's the market price. Perhaps creditors would agree to take stock and then be part of the buyout. That
part is complicated. However, when it comes to running the company, the government can presumably reach into the ranks of lower executives --- those that haven't screwed up their companies, but do know how they run --- and pick new upper management. There might be competent executives elsewhere looking for a challenge or a chance to prove themselves. Somehow, this seems like a far from insoluble problem. With government backing, the companies can do what they need to without keeping Wall Street happy, and the future functional companies can be reprivatized, maybe even for a profit to the taxpayers.
The Raven's Blog: May the Better Bird Win
http://www.ravensblog.net
- Email this page
By ericfDecember 4, 2008 - 3:17pmGo figure.
American automakers don't actually "MAKE" cars, they assemble them. If the automakers go belly up, you would lose auto assembly jobs, but also, jobs for people that make the steering wheels, the plastic used in the steering wheels, the hoods, the control panel, the seat covers, all the materials used in the seat covers and on and on...
What I don't understand is why when American auto companies sell in Europe or Japan, they have to get 40 mpg. When they sell here, it's 15. If they can compete in Europe, which they obviously do, why can't they compete here?
- Email this page
By deanrddDecember 4, 2008 - 4:51pmYes - temporarily nationalize them
Use the bailout money to buy the automakers. Straighten them out and sell them off at a profit a few years from now. the profit from the sale of stock will pay off some national debt.
- Email this page
By f u bush2December 4, 2008 - 10:12pmThe problem is
The government is like the mob. If they "temporarily" nationalize them, temporary will become permanent. Didn't Stalin nationalize all the businesses in the Soviet Union? I would rather see the employees take them over. Either that, or let them sink. When do the bailout bonanzas end? Banks, auto makers, airlines. I know that Boeing, Weyerhaueser, Microsoft, Intel, Costco and even Denny's are hurting. Do they also get a bailout. What about professional sports teams? What about small companies? If my 15 employee company flounders, will I be bailed out? I'll drive a hybrid to capital hill and all I'll need is just 1 or 2 billion dollars....I realize that the big 3 employ a lot more people than me but aren't my 15 employees important? They have families. They support local businesses with the money I pay them. They have mortgages and car payments. My 2 cents....
- Email this page
By moneyosDecember 5, 2008 - 11:31pmI like Michael Moore's idea
Buy all the common stock for about $4B--a steal compared to the $30B the CEOs demanded today after driving their hybrids to Washington. But wait--did they carpool? Back to the plan--buy 'em out; call a stockholders meeting and oust the entire management sector. Hire new managers from within the workers (outsource the business expertise to a management company) and save BIILyuns on compensation for the mahogany row occupants.
I think we should try to rein in on management excesses through tax policy. All corproate officers in America should be under a special tax rule. If they make more than 100x the amount of thir least-paid employee, they should pay 96% tax on every dollar over that amount. So if the janitor makes $28,000 the most a CEO could make would be $2,800,000 before he/she woulsd have to pay moast of every dollar to Uncle Sam. And severance packages should be taxed at the Capital Gains rate. Only call it the "Ill-Gotten Gains Rate."
- Email this page
By blogbobDecember 4, 2008 - 11:28pmThis wont work
If you take away the ability to become wealthy in America, then companies will move to other nations that allow capitalism. That's what I would do. It's nothing personal, just business.
- Email this page
By moneyosDecember 5, 2008 - 11:37pmI think $2 million plus
qualifies as becoming wealthy.
But if you want to leave, be my guest.
- Email this page
By gt6December 5, 2008 - 11:56pmYou should absolutely take your business
and leave the country. It would be the best thing for you and real Americans. Saudi Arabia and Iran are very conservative countries where you would fit right in.
- Email this page
By hufflarry2000December 6, 2008 - 9:31amWhy not...
Let the UAW and the employees buy the companies. Once the Big-3 are employee owned maybe the could turn a profit... People tend to work harder when they work for themselves, just ask any small business owner...
The best part of an Obama Presidency is that Hillary will NEVER be President..
- Email this page
By StillFightnDecember 5, 2008 - 9:07amOne problem...
The CEOs and RepubliCANT looters have ensured that the employees and the unions don't have the funds necessary to take the companies over.
Logic says they should have been looking for a solution within the company before they turned to the government for assistance. However, as any Trekkie will tell you, "logic is a little bird that sings in the forest and annoys its neighbors."
If all else fails, immortality can always be assured by spectacular error. ~~~John Kenneth Galbraith
- Email this page
By nonexistent manDecember 5, 2008 - 9:38amBy nonexistent manDecember 5, 2008 - 9:38am
I don't buy (pun intended) that. The UAW has massive retiree fund in it's control. Use the money and buy the company. GMs outstanding shares are 610.5M at ~$4.00/share = $2.4 billion to buy the company....
Tell me that the UAW and all GM (~300,000) can't buy them. If the UAW doesn't put in a dime (and it should), we're talking ~$8200 per employee (if the retirees doen't get involved).
The best part of an Obama Presidency is that Hillary will NEVER be President..
- Email this page
By StillFightnDecember 5, 2008 - 10:12amAnd we're back to the original problem.
"Hey, all that money the employees paid into the retirement account is just sitting there doing nothing! Let's spend it!"
...and the retirees wind up with nothing, while the CEOs and RepubliCANT looters line their pockets yet again.
Sorry. You are a NO-GO.
If all else fails, immortality can always be assured by spectacular error. ~~~John Kenneth Galbraith
- Email this page
By nonexistent manDecember 5, 2008 - 10:16amBy nonexistent manDecember 5, 2008 - 10:16am
Fine, than use the strike fund....
www.uaw.org/about/works/strikes.html
If the employees owned the company, no more need for strikes....Combine that with the employees buying the stock....
The best part of an Obama Presidency is that Hillary will NEVER be President..
- Email this page
By StillFightnDecember 5, 2008 - 10:21amMaybe we need to be sure first that GM is even worth saving
A senator at the hearing yesterday said that even if the Big Three get the $34 billion they are asking for now, they will probably need another $90 billion by the end of next year. If things are that bad, why should anyone, whether it is the UAW, the US government, or anyone else put money into them?
Truth is whatever you can get other people to believe - Tom Smothers
- Email this page
By UffdaguyDecember 5, 2008 - 10:32amBy UffdaguyDecember 5, 2008 - 10:32am
Good point. The alternative is Chaper 11 in which case, the UAW get NA-DA, the retirees get NA-DA. Isn't it better for it to become employee owned?
The best part of an Obama Presidency is that Hillary will NEVER be President..
- Email this page
By StillFightnDecember 5, 2008 - 10:43amMy concern is that you're asking someone to buy the
Titanic as it is slipping beneath the waves, trying to convince them that if they become the lucky owner, they can patch up the holes and bail out the water before it is past the point of no return. I'm not sure if it hasn't already passed that point. If the global economy weren't a complete wreck, I'd be more optimistic, but with even Toyota and Honda suffering, it doesn't look like a good bet at this point in time.
Truth is whatever you can get other people to believe - Tom Smothers
- Email this page
By UffdaguyDecember 5, 2008 - 10:50amBy UffdaguyDecember 5, 2008 - 10:50am
So what then? Do nothing and let it go away? At that point, the workers and retirees are REALLY screwed. I agree, it may be a sinking ship but if the employees owned it there may be some kind of liferaft...
The best part of an Obama Presidency is that Hillary will NEVER be President..
- Email this page
By StillFightnDecember 5, 2008 - 10:59amThe biggest life raft available is nationalization.
But you're trying to drop it off the davits with nobody on board. You'd rather see them in a leaky, undersized dinghy with no oars.
If all else fails, immortality can always be assured by spectacular error. ~~~John Kenneth Galbraith
- Email this page
By nonexistent manDecember 5, 2008 - 2:21pmSo your solution is to have the employees buy the company,
which looks as if it will fail no matter what. That way, the only people who will lose are those evil, greedy UAW members, which will be a good example of what happens if you are stupid enough to join a union, right? Meanwhile, execs like Wagoner will get their big severance packages, and move on to the next company they can loot and leave.
What is it about unions that make repubs so angry? Do they hate the idea that workers deserve to be treated fairly? Do they feel that management is the only part of the company that has value, and the workers who produce the products are things you can use, abuse and discard?
Truth is whatever you can get other people to believe - Tom Smothers
- Email this page
By UffdaguyDecember 5, 2008 - 2:21pmBy UffdaguyDecember 5, 2008 - 2:21pm
Look, I have no issue with "the unions" but my first post still stands. If the employees owned the corp, they can pick management from within. It is the ultimate in the workers owning the means of production. What is wrong with that?
As far as the management, I've repeatedly said that they have had a hand in this too and the only "golden chute" they deserve is one into the crapper... I'm no friend of big management and I feel the Japanese model it a good one. Yes, CEOs do earn more than the average guy "on the line" but not 1000X more... How much should a CEO make?
The best part of an Obama Presidency is that Hillary will NEVER be President..
- Email this page
By StillFightnDecember 5, 2008 - 3:09pmHaving the employees own the company is no magic solution
to the problem. As I said before, if the economy weren't in historically bad shape, it might make sense, but at this point, the bad decisions made by GM leadership over the past few decades have painted ANY new owner of the company into a situation that most likely cannot be recovered from under the current economic realities.
Truth is whatever you can get other people to believe - Tom Smothers
- Email this page
By UffdaguyDecember 5, 2008 - 3:12pm...thereby pulling the teeth on the union.
Nice anti-union tactic, that. Try selling them on the notion that if they use the emergency fund to buy the company, they'll never need the emergency fund. What makes you think management will change if the company becomes employee-owned? It didn't work that way for Braniff, did it? Where's Braniff now?
Nope. The best option is still to nationalize, return the company to solvency by making it build reliable vehicles and sell them at a reasonable price, and then offer the employees the option of buying the company through stock acquisition.
If all else fails, immortality can always be assured by spectacular error. ~~~John Kenneth Galbraith
- Email this page
By nonexistent manDecember 5, 2008 - 2:19pmBy nonexistent manDecember 5, 2008 - 10:16am
Strike fund...
UAW builds up $874 million strike fund
With Big 3 contracts expiring in September, union's war chest has near-record balance.
www.detroitnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070120/AUTO01/701200368...
Use it and make GM an employee-owned company....
The best part of an Obama Presidency is that Hillary will NEVER be President..
- Email this page
By StillFightnDecember 5, 2008 - 10:23amDo the math
Management says they need 29 Billion for the next few months. Experts say the will need anotheer 90B in less than a year. That means the $874M atrike fund would last them about 3 days. They could make the deal in DC and be out of business before they got back to Detroit.
- Email this page
By gt6December 5, 2008 - 2:48pmMy question to fighty would be:
Would you buy stock in GM? Would you recommend that your friends and family buy stock in GM? Would you be willing to put all your retirement money into buying GM stock? If the answer to those questions is no, then why should the UAW members do so? That retirement money may be all they have to live off until they get other jobs. If you won't buy stock in GM, why should the taxpayers do so, because that is basically what Detroit is asking us to do.
If we absolutely feel we can't afford for this country to lose the manufacturing capability of GM, then nationalize it, as we will have decided that it is an asset of national importance.
Truth is whatever you can get other people to believe - Tom Smothers
- Email this page
By UffdaguyDecember 5, 2008 - 3:09pmBy UffdaguyDecember 5, 2008 - 3:09pm
Would you buy stock in GM?
-Yes, and did at $3.49/share on 11/21....
Now I don't work for GM but I expect they will pull this out (I'm betting on it) and employee ownership gives one pride in one's work that they don't have if they feel they work at GM for the UAW..... It the company became GM-UAW than why have the strike fund? The workers OWN the means of production... Why is that evil?
The best part of an Obama Presidency is that Hillary will NEVER be President..
- Email this page
By StillFightnDecember 5, 2008 - 3:19pmThere is no way I would buy GM stock at this point in time
Honda is laying off workers in Japan and the UK now, and have dropped out of F1 racing. They say that they will probably lose money next year, the first time since WWII, and they don't see a light at the end of the tunnel, (THEIR words, not mine). If the Japanese, who were the most successful of all car companies until the economy crashed say they are pessimistic about the future, then why in hell would anyone be optimistic about GM? You obviously have the right to put your money where you choose, but I believe you are going to lose it all. Fortunately, at $3.49 a share, even 100 shares going belly up won't hurt too badly. I had a friend who used to buy $50 of penny stocks on every paycheck, usually in things like mining companies. His philosophy is that if he lost all $50, he wasn't any worse off than if he had blown it on a night out at a good restaurant, and some of those stocks might actually pay off.
Truth is whatever you can get other people to believe - Tom Smothers
- Email this page
By UffdaguyDecember 5, 2008 - 4:03pmI think a solution that ends up with
union ownership is the way to go but these comp[anies are going to need a bailout no matter who holds the keys. I'd like to see a bailout as a partnership between union and government until the union as new owners are back on their feet.
In the process, sell off non-US production and off-shore brands and institute tariffs to even the playing field somewhat.
- Email this page
By gt6December 5, 2008 - 4:51pmBy gt6December 5, 2008 - 2:48pm
Are people saying the UAW should hand over the strike fund now? Give me a break. Save that money to help employees that get laid off while they look for work and relocate.
- Email this page
By f u bush2December 5, 2008 - 4:37pmIt also ignores the fact that the UAW strike fund is from all
UAW workers, not just those at GM, yet fighty seems to think that Ford and Chrysler workers should also hand over their money to help GM employees buy there company. Sounds suspiciously like the "stealing" that he rants about all the time.
Truth is whatever you can get other people to believe - Tom Smothers
- Email this page
By UffdaguyDecember 5, 2008 - 4:44pmBy UffdaguyDecember 5, 2008 - 4:44pm
He's just trying to ever so gently blame the workers and the unions while claiming to not be. Sort of like how Rush and other angry white men bitch about the black people while claiming to not be racist if only those black people wouldn't make them so angry all the time...
- Email this page
By f u bush2December 5, 2008 - 5:28pmBy UffdaguyDecember 5, 2008 - 4:44pm
No, I haven't forgotten about them but Ford and Chrysler aren't in nearly as bad a shape as GM. And if GM goes tango-uniform, the UAW strike fund will be eaten up supporting GM workers before the Ford and Chrysler employees get any of it. Nobody wins.... It is in the workers of Ford and Chrysler's best intrest NOT to see a bunch of unemployed GM workers sucking down the UAW reserves. And yes, I see no reason why the govt can't help with the company purchase. Helluva lot cheaper than a total bail-out....
The best part of an Obama Presidency is that Hillary will NEVER be President..
- Email this page
By StillFightnDecember 5, 2008 - 10:12pmBy f u bush2December 5, 2008 - 4:37pm
If GM goes belly up...
"Give me a break. Save that money to help employees that get laid off while they look for work and relocate."
Look for work and relocate to exactly...Where!!!! DUH! If GM goes down a BUNCH of people are out of work and the strike fund would be gone REAL FAST.
Give the workers money and they'll eat today. Help them buy the company (yes, with some govt help) and they'll eat for a lifetime.
The best part of an Obama Presidency is that Hillary will NEVER be President..
- Email this page
By StillFightnDecember 5, 2008 - 10:08pmBy StillFightnDecember 5, 2008 - 10:08pm
Yep.
I read what you wrote. Pathetic.
The money should be saved for the employees to use between jobs rather than hand it over to the employer.
- Email this page
By f u bush2December 5, 2008 - 11:28pmBy f u bush2December 5, 2008 - 11:28pm
And once again I ask...
"The money should be saved for the employees to use between jobs....."
If GM goes down, lots of other things go down too... Parts suppliers, dealerships etc.... Where the hell are ALL those employees going to FIND jobs? Ford and Chrysler CAN'T absorb even half of them.. Tell me Mr. Economics PhD, WHERE WILL THEY FIND JOBS, AND how long will that strike fund last if the GM employees are out of work... Don't just insult, answer the simple question. What is WRONG with employee ownership of the means of production (with govt assistance). Why do you HATE the working man...?
The best part of an Obama Presidency is that Hillary will NEVER be President..
- Email this page
By StillFightnDecember 6, 2008 - 9:05amBy StillFightnDecember 6, 2008 - 9:05am
And again I say the unions should save that money for the employees to get through layoffs and periods of unemployment.
- Email this page
By f u bush2December 6, 2008 - 6:18pmBy f u bush2December 6, 2008 - 6:18pm
Here we go again, a little more slowly this time...
"save that money for the employees to get through layoffs and periods of unemployment"..
If GM goes belly-up. We're talkin about 300,000 GM employees. The fund has about 900mill. That is a whopping 3000 per employee. Yeah, that'll do the trick. NOW, if they use the money in conjunction with some govt cash and some money from the workers, they could BUY the company.
The best part of an Obama Presidency is that Hillary will NEVER be President..
- Email this page
By StillFightnDecember 7, 2008 - 9:18amBy StillFightnDecember 7, 2008 - 9:18am
Yes I heard you. I disagree with you. As others have said. That money won't really be of help to saving the companies. That money should be saved to help employees who lose their jobs. Even if there is a bailout, there will be job cuts. There should be money available yo help those employees between jobs.
- Email this page
By f u bush2December 7, 2008 - 10:22amMaybe he thinks
...they can get by on what they receive in unemployment benefits. Meanwhile, the execs get to suck the union funds dry, leaving nothing for the retirees or the workers who were promised they'd have those funds to fall back on in case of extreme emergency.
If all else fails, immortality can always be assured by spectacular error. ~~~John Kenneth Galbraith
- Email this page
By nonexistent manDecember 7, 2008 - 12:01pmYou're not in agriculture, are you?
Rule #1: don't eat your seed corn.
You're asking them to invade a fund that was never intended to be used for the purpose you're proposing. That sounds eerily similar to what Cowboy-hat Oathbreaker wanted people to think about his privatization efforts regarding Social Security...efforts which, thankfully, met with dismal and utter failure.
Why don't you outline what you see as the problems with nationalization, rather than outlining the reasons you think the workers' funds should be looted even further by the have-mores?
If all else fails, immortality can always be assured by spectacular error. ~~~John Kenneth Galbraith
- Email this page
By nonexistent manDecember 6, 2008 - 3:05pmBy nonexistent manDecember 6, 2008 - 3:05pm
Why don't you outline what you see as the problems with nationalization, rather than outlining the reasons you think the workers' funds should be looted even further by the have-mores?
-Because it is currently a private company and before the taxpayer gives it a dime (and no I didn't approve of ANY of the DEMOCRAT led bailouts - yes DEMOCRAT because if Pelois didn't want it, she could have KILLED it) everything should be done to find a private sector solution. The strike fund, employee dollars and some govt funds could be used a "seed corn" to BUY THE DAMN COMPANY FOR the employees! Why do you HATE the workers. As I pointed out, if GM goes belly up, the 900mill will provide each of the 300K employees a WHOPPING $3000/each... Yeah, that'll do the trick...
And again I say, if the workers OWNED the company, WHY would they need a strike fund?
The best part of an Obama Presidency is that Hillary will NEVER be President..
- Email this page
By StillFightnDecember 7, 2008 - 9:23amWhat part
of "the money wouldn't last 3 days" do you not understand?
- Email this page
By gt6December 7, 2008 - 9:29amBush proposed the bailouts
Why are you lying? Is that what the druggy put in your head?
- Email this page
By hufflarry2000December 7, 2008 - 10:49am.
.
- Email this page
By nonexistent manDecember 5, 2008 - 2:15pmAuto union makes key concessions
- Email this page
By f u bush2December 5, 2008 - 10:56amActually the auto makers are getting unfairly treated
Not that I'm endorsing bail out whole heartedly. But consider this. The banks and investment firms did not get grilled like this. As a matter of fact both parties were speaking out that a deal will most definitely get done to give firms like AIG some money. So why does this other industry suddenly get treated more harshly? I might add that part of the auto industry's problems is the fact that credit is less available and buyers are struggling to keep their homes in this economy. That is hurting sales. That aspect of the auto maker's problems lies at the feet of the banking industry. Those people got their money no questions asked. But the automakers are getting hammered on Capitol Hill.
I believe the reason the banking industry got off so easily and the automakers are having to fight for the same bailout is simply political. First of all the two parties get to take sides and argue about labor vs. management. Secondly both parties can take a stand with the auto industry and at the end of the day the people will think all of the bail out going on was grudgingly given. No one will remember how eager the politicians were to get the money to the banking industry.
Notice that we sit around arguing about the wages of auto laborers but we do not argue about the wages of people sitting at desks making stock deals. We also argue about the products the auto industry is putting out. What about the product the banks were offering? These risky loans to people with bad credit were certainly as poor a product as an SUV over the last few years.
- Email this page
By f u bush2December 5, 2008 - 11:15am