Bailout is Not the Answer

By Peter B. Collins

The idea of a bailout for Detroit just doesn't make sense to me. As a longtime union member, I'm reluctant to suggest that Chapter 11 is the right solution. Based on the airline bankruptcies of this very decade, we know that workers will bear the brunt of the reorganization, and that pensions and health insurance for active workers and retirees will be cut or eliminated.

But a bailout will only delay the day of reckoning. Van Jones, author of The Green Economy, made the case on the show today that this is the opportunity to chart a new course--for about $100 billion, we can create 3 million green collar jobs in the next 2 years, making wind turbines, solar arrays, and the infrastructure to deliver the energy generated. This is a vision for a sustainable future.

Also, I don't believe that the Big 3 automakers will implode if they don't get a loan by Christmas. They are presenting false choices and worst case scenarios to jam through a package that will protect the status quo. Every week, I test drive a new car for a radio feature I host; I can tell you that some of the cars made in or by Detroit are pretty darn good.  Last week I drove a Chevy Aveo that gets 25 mpg city and 34 highway--about the same as the Honda Fit that I tested the week before.  (The Aveo is made in Korea.)  Ford has a great hybrid, the Escape, that is really impressive. Ford's Focus isn't a hybrid, but gets 34 on the highway.

So I'm not ready to accept the Chicken Little cries from overpaid auto execs who want us to pay for their mistakes. I want to see them work it out with some aid from the private sector. After T. Boone Pickens and Carl Icahn put some skins in the game, I might consider some federal aid to Detroit.

A listener email put it this way: Give Detroit taxpayer dollars, they will spend them to preserve the status quo. Give consumers money and incentives to buy cars, and the auto industry will generate the sales needed to survive and thrive.

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"Give consumers money and

"Give consumers money and incentives to buy cars, and the auto industry will generate the sales needed to survive and thrive." Very well said. Couldn't agree more.

I do have some issues with this particular part though: "I can tell you that some of the cars made in or by Detroit are pretty darn good. Last week I drove a Chevy Aveo that gets 25 mpg city and 34 highway--about the same as the Honda Fit that I tested the week before. (The Aveo is made in Korea.) Ford has a great hybrid, the Escape, that is really impressive. Ford's Focus isn't a hybrid, but gets 34 on the highway."

In October of 1990 I bought my very first new car. It was a 1991 Honda CRX-HF. That car was built exceptionally well and got over 50 mpg on the highway. So apparently here we are 18 years later and no one, not GM, Honda, Toyota, Ford or any other manufacturer can produce a car that does that well now. Honda's Civic hybrid doesn't even get that kind of mileage. Apparently cars are one of those rare examples where technology goes backwards.

And let's talk about that Aveo. The thing looks ridiculous and Chevy has not done a good job of marketing it. At least Ford has found a niche with the Focus, but that Aveo is headed the way of the Ford Fiesta (obscurity anyone?). The Escape is alright, but for $30,000+? C'mon. Detroit is turning out better product than they ever have, but I wonder if it's not too little too late. While SUVs were the big sellers a few years ago, these companies should have still been doing some research and development of other potential products. The Volt is a joke that was thrown together on short notice. But imagine where GM might be with that car if they had been serious about developing the concept for the last 20 years.

So don't bail them out

don't bail out the banks either. They screwed the economy up after all. We'll just let the whole thing go down the tubes like Hoover did in the First Republican Depression.

By gt6November 19, 2008 - 7:54pm

I'm not saying that the whole thing should hit the crapper. I'm saying that throwing billions of dollars at the big 3 for them to spend on oversized operating expenses is the wrong answer. How will that make GM a profitable company? They need some serious changes. But, as the article points out, what if suddenly people could afford to buy a car? What if the Government suddenly offered 0% financing on a new American made car to anyone with a halfway decent credit score and included tax credits for any car that got over 30 mpg? Then GM, Ford and Chrysler would actually sell the cars to bring the money in the door and put people to work.

What if

Do all that and you would still have crappy management at the top.

If GM goes chapter 11, how many people will buy a car where the warrantee might not be backed, parts may not be available and resale value is in the toilet. They'll buy something else.

So now, define American made. Toyota makes almost a million cars a year here. Would they be eligible?

Next, put all the sins of the big three together and compare that to the debacle of the banking industry who caused the meltdown in the first place. We are giving them 30 times as much with a blank check.

The bailout is necessary, but on their terms. Huge concessions from management. No perks. Probably a shake up IN management. Specific guidelines on how the companies can move toward a more sensible salable product. Some concessions from the union too, but in return, all pensions must be fully funded. Any shortfall in funding, made good with company stock, voting shares. And, until the investment is paid back, the government retains an ownership stake in the companies and seats on the board.

By gt6November 20, 2008 - 9:48am

So resale values are in the toilet, warranties are not honored and cars can't be fixed. Isn't that a somewhat worse version of what Detroit has already given us for the last 30 years? And isn't that why people are already buying something else?

Give them a ton of money and what do you have? Bad management at the top, less efficient factories, and a cumbersome union at the bottom. Sounds like a recipe for a financial sink hole to me.

By the way, I agree on the banking thing. We gave them a ton as well without thought to other ways to accomplish the same thing in a smarter fashion.

cumbersome union at the bottom?

How is a union cumbersome? Do you mean by paying a living wage and benefits? You must be another jealous right winger who was never smart enough and too lazy to work in a union shop.

By hufflarry2000November 20, 2008 - 11:33am

I can't work in a union shop. I'm considered management and would sit on the opposite side of the table should a union come to town.

Read this Huff and you'll see why the unions are cumbersome, and why they are one of the main problems facing Detroit right now.
www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1004876-1,00.html

Strange how they were not a problem

before Reaganomics in 1980. All this anti union crap is just 30 years of right wing lies. Unions help a company, not hurt.

By hufflarry2000November 20, 2008 - 11:52am

Strange how the UAW was at it's strongest in 1979, which oddly enough was about the time that Detroit was turning out the crap product that developed the reputation for a second rate product. Way to help the company UAW. Funny too that the foreign manufacturer's started developing US plants about the same time, most of which are turning out profitable quality cars that aren't union made. Funny timing indeed. Don't see the lies though.

The Union was no stronger in 79

than it was in 69 when the product was the envy of the world.

Above: Resale values today are below average but they will fall to near zero if the company appears to be going out A number of years ago I knew someone who had a Peugeot at the end of its lease about a year after Peugeot stopped selling in US. Residual value was $12,000 trade in value was $2000.

Warrantees and parts are no problem now. If that changes, the bottom falls out of the marklet. NOBODY WILL BUY A NEW ONE. How do you expect to rebuild the company then?

By gt6November 20, 2008 - 12:31pm

Truth be told I don't expect to rebuild the company. I expect it to fail. It's just a question of when. Will it be soon because the government doesn't throw money at the auto industry or will it be later after the American taxpayer throws a bunch of money at a financial black hole.

There is no reason it has to fail

Honda and Toyota have proven that cars can be made here efficiently and a million jobs are worth saving. Having a manufacturing base in our economy is a national security interest. Importing big ticket items rather than make them here does huge damage to our balance of trade. Fixing the auto industry is key on all points.

You just despise workers actually making a good living

Fortunately for America, the anti union side was badly defeated in the election. You are just brainwashed by right wing hate radio. The union is not responsible for the crap cars built in the 1970's.

By hufflarry2000November 20, 2008 - 12:31pm

Believe it or not, I do not despise workers making a good living. I despise the inefficiencies created by narrow definitions of what an employee can or can not do as defined by unions. In order to remain competitive now, companies need to be flexible, and that is from the top down. If I need a company to come and lay brick I can hire a union company that will come and have brick layers that will not carry bricks or mix mud, but simply stand and wait for a laborer to supply them and laborers that will not lay a brick, but simply watch once each brick layer is supplied with the necessary material. Or I can hire a non-union company that sends bricklayers and laborers, but a layer is not necessarily opposed to mixing up a batch of mud should the laborer be busy doing something else and the laborer might jump in and throw up a few bricks or strike some joints if all the layers are supplied. Which group will be more productive?

I've got carpenters that are skilled with red iron and other carpenters that are good with concrete and other carpenters that are capable drywallers. All of those guys can jump in where needed and keep production moving should the need arise.

I would have no problem with a union that would allow some flexibility. This is an absolute must if organized labor wants to remain relevant in the 21st century.

The union group would be far more productive

They would be highly trained, not prone to injury and their product would be far superior and all the rules and laws would be followed. You are just a cheapskate.

Organized labor is going to be very relevant in the 21st century. The right wing assault on labor has led to the decline of the middle class and the ruin of the economy.

By hufflarry2000November 20, 2008 - 2:12pm

While that used to be true, the non-union shops have learned Huff. The good ones are training their employees and instituting serious safety programs. They're paying enough to keep the unions away. And they're still costing less and getting things done sooner.

The WSJ also argued

that a bailout merely delays the inevitable. Chapter 11 would give GM (WSJ didn't discuss the others) a chance to relieve itself of useless facilties and property it is required to maintain because of state laws and old contracts.

I think any bailout should

I think any bailout should have not strings, but ROPES attached...and those should lead directly to management. It was their poor decisions, their investment in themselves rather than their workers and their business that caused these problems. Why should we give money to them if they are going to continue doing the same thing? We want to save an industry, work with the actual industry, not those who bleed it dry. Kill the leeches (figuratively, not literally. Maybe they should be forced to work on the assembly line at assembly-line wages).

Unions

Cutting off your nose to spite your face? Letting more than 3 million human beings lose their jobs because of what? Go green I say but keep some American Names in the auto business.
Obviously you do not know the history of unions. Study up! Unions have given Americans union and non-union workers; the 40 hour workweek, paid vacations, paid holidays, equal pay for women doing the same job, dignity and respect in the shop, health and safety protections, seniority protections and on and on. Unions were also involved in the civil rights movement. UAW President Walter Reuther walked arm and arm with Martin Luther King.
Our United States of America has given 3 billion of our tax $$ in incentives to foreign auto makers. Alabama where the dispicable Representative Mr. Shelby, gave Honda $158 million, Toyota $29 mllion, Hyudi(who knows how to spell it, I don't car) $252.8 million, and Mercedes $253 million plus gave them the land, cleared the land and trained the workers.

If not for the Big 3 WWII would not have been won....

Do not fault the union brothers and sisters for this mess.

By americaisaunionNovember 22, 2008 - 9:01pm

Look at what you posted though. The most recent accomplishment on that list was more than 40 years ago. Don't get me wrong, I am not saying that unions have never had a positive effect. I'm saying that the unions need to streamline, re-examine their mission, and develop a modern approach to fit the modern methods of manufacturing and doing business. Time and time again businesses that apply vision succeed and those that refuse to be at the forefront fail. Why would unions be any different?

The unions offer a product just like any other business. In this case they offer various employees that are skilled in a variety of tasks. One of the great successes of unions in the past has been great training programs that provided skilled employees to manufacturers. But non-union shops have caught on and many have either bought into training programs or developed their own for their employees. So what is the union offering now to provide a better product? I would suggest that what they need to offer now is a workforce that is highly trained AND flexible. This would compete with the non-union labor at the other plants. And my guess is that many of those foreign automakers wouldn't be as opposed to the unions if this were the case.

For the last 40 years

Business has been waging war against the unions and winning, largely through misleading and often downright fraudulent claims against unions so it's no surprise the unions have little to boast about in that time.

Your meme about inflexibility on production lines is a case in point. While I understand this to be a problem in construction industry, particularly where different unions represent workers in specific jobs, I find nothing showing this to be a problem in the auto industry. The main problem for workers on an assembly line is the repetitive nature of doing a single specific task. They CAN'T step away from their tasks, even for a moment.

By gt6November 24, 2008 - 1:11pm

While likely more important on the construction site, flexibility is important in any modern industry (in my opinion). I feel like this article from Time has been the best discussion of the auto industry problems in years. This is a little older, but I would argue even more applicable now that the big 3 are having problems.

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1004876-1,00.html

I just don't know that I buy into the misleading or fraudulent part when it comes to unions. My union experience is somewhat limited but I'll outline it here so that you can understand something about my perspective.

One summer in college working for the state of MN with union membership
A few in-law type relatives working for various union companies/governments
Relatively extensive training on how to deal with union organizers for managers

And from my seat I've watched the unions shoot themselves in the foot again and again. And I think the reason is simple. A union is a business whether or not anyone wants to acknowledge that. And most businesses have to deal with competing demands. Now in my case I deal with clients that want to pay X for their new home and suppliers and sub-contractors that want to get paid Y for the work involved and my job is to work with all parties involved to come out with an agreement that works for everybody. The toughest part is to find that balance that keeps everyone happy and progressing forward. In my opinion unions have stuck to the adversarial model of manager/employee relations far past the useful life of that model. And that is why unions are dying. Had they progressed with the industries they operate alongside I would argue they would be strong and ever growing. The employees aren't the only clients of the union, manufacturers are as well (though they may be secondary). I read an article the other day that discussed the strategy that many foreign manufacturers building in America have employed of locating specifically to minimize the chances of unionization. What if that wasn't the case? What if the unions were cultivating relationships with these companies and discussing the possibility of providing skilled and safe labor without the adversarial relationship AND WERE ABLE TO SELL THAT? People would line up to join the union and work for these manufacturers. Instead the union has alienated the secondary client and worked themselves right out of a job. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that unions should always roll over and give in, but at some point industries learn that they don't have to put up with the union crap.

A few years ago the state workers here in MN went on strike. The state got dozens of calls on the subject. Some number less than 20% were in support of the union. And some number along the lines of 10% were opposed to the union. And something like 70% wanted to know how to get the vacated state jobs. To me that's telling. If that was a private industry the leadership would look at that and say to themselves "damn, look at all this labor we can utilize for the same price we pay now, all we have to do is get rid of the union."

People keep jumping down my throat saying that I'm somehow against a worker making a decent living. That's not the case. I'm saying that the union needs to provide something that a manufacturer/industry can't get for significantly less cost with minimal pain in relocating (within the US) or retooling.

Interesting artcle

What I got from it was that Ford can't make money on the Taurus, not because of labor, but because the have to rebate it 3k to make it roll, but they do make it up in volume.

Also, there is nothing there about a lack of flexibility in the workers.

The Minnesota strike. This, to me, is an argument FOR the union. Without the union, you might see an administrator firing good workers to make his budget and maybe a few headlines. There goes the stability. The new employees might be willing and cheaper, but they don't know the job. Pretty soon you have the local repub party talking about how bad the service is and suggesting privatization.
Also, union state worker salaries keep upward pressure on the overall cost of labor. This helps maintain the existence of the middle class.

By gt6November 24, 2008 - 3:50pm

"Chrysler, Ford and GM take an average of eight more hours to make a vehicle at their North American plants than do Honda, Nissan and Toyota. Nissan is fastest at 18 hours a vehicle, and Chrysler (the U.S.-based unit of DaimlerChrysler) is slowest at 31 hours, according to the Harbour Report, an annual productivity guide. These times translate into an extra expense of $300 to $500 a vehicle for the Big Three as compared with the transplants, which in a tough market can kill already slim profit potential."

"job classifications at transplant factories are broader. Line workers are trained in a variety of tasks--say, spot welding as well as interior assembly--and they rotate jobs frequently. They're less susceptible to boredom and repetitive-stress injuries. They're also trained to do preventive maintenance. At Toyota plants, every assembly-line worker has the authority to stop the line if he or she spots, say, a flaw in a windshield. More important, workers are encouraged by management to do so."

"The long and often bitter relationship between the Big Three and the UAW means that their work practices are rooted not in mutual trust but in a system of sometimes picky rules. A "skilled tradesman" may be required to change a fuse in an assembly-line machine, a task that an assembly worker could easily be trained to perform. Work rules differ from plant to plant because agreements are negotiated with local union leaders. If a tradesman notices a line worker fiddling with equipment, he may file a grievance, claiming that his job is being undercut by a lower-paid employee."

"A flexible work force is especially critical for maintaining line speed if the model mix changes frequently. After a switch, a worker who formerly needed two minutes to help install a wiring harness might need only 90 seconds, meaning he or she could do another job--if allowed. But at some Big Three plants, assigning a new task to a worker requires consulting the local union leader, who might approve the extra job but insist on a quid pro quo--say, extra break time. Such complications can make it more costly to adjust the vehicle mix--leading to unsold vehicles and requiring more profit-eating 0% financing."

How does that not talk about flexibility of workers (as well as the plants themselves)?

I suspect that the differences between your view of the MN state employee strike and mine are exemplary of the root differences between us. I have been arguing for some time the state ought to be privatizing some of these functions. Some cities here have been contracting snow removal for some time and are managing to get the job done (by companies that do have experienced employees that know their job well) at a fraction of the cost that the state spends on snow removal. To me that's just a waste of tax dollars. That money could be spent on education, infrastructure, lower taxes or any one of a million other things and do more good.

Keeps sounding more and more

like a problem in management, not labor. GM attacks labor, seeking always to WIN in negotiations. Toyota lays back and offers a FAIR deal. The rotation and preventive maintenance is just good management. NO reason GM can't do that. It may not be the union that is inflexible here.

The quicker build time is probably due more to newer, more automated plants.

My experience with privatization is short term savings, especially if the new company is taking over equipment bought by the government, followed by not much difference in cost except that the workers earn less and the company pockets the difference. Snow removal MAY be different since it involves using men and equipment when they are otherwise idle and by contracting it as a separate function you avoid OT.

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