Sunday's Show, May 21st - Special Edition!

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Sunday's Show, May 21st - Special Edition!

By Isaac-Davy Aronson

Andrew Weaver, John Dorhauer, & Welton in the Air America studio

Today, State of Belief exposes a coordinated effort to undermine mainline Protestantism -- and render America's largest denominations incapable of standing up to right wing politics.

In conjunction with the website Talk to Action, State of Belief takes an unprecedented look into the takeover of America’s churches, revealing the ugly truths, personal experiences, and exhaustive research of Welton and the three leaders he welcomes today:

Dr. Bruce Prescott is Executive Director of Mainstream Oklahoma Baptists, President of the Oklahoma chapter of Americans United for the Separation of Church and State, and the host of Religious Talk on KREF radio in Norman, Oklahoma.

Dr. John Dorhauer is minister for the St. Louis Association of the United Churches of Christ. He writes a series for Talk to Action on the right wing attack on the United Churches of Christ.

Dr. Andrew Weaver, a United Methodist pastor and research psychologist, has traced the campaign against mainline Protestantism largely to the Institute on Religion and Democracy. Weaver is associate publisher of Zion's Herald and a contributor to Hard Ball on Holy Ground: The Religious Right v. the Mainline for the Church's Soul. Read his series at Talk to Action on the right wing attack on the United Methodist Church.

The full description of today's show is here. Much more information on this issue, including the research and writings of Welton’s three guests, can be found at Talk to Action, particularly in its Shadow War section.

May 21, 2006
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This is probably not new news

As a life long member of the Roman Catholic Church, I feel that most tradtions in Christianity that stem from both the West (Rome) and the East (Constantinople) have been co opted into promoting the politicized Jesus.

I have come to the belief that Christianity as we know it has been drastically changed from the movement that Jesus started. Around the 4th century, Constantine influenced the movement to allow the Roman government to protect it by becoming the Roman Catholic church. This is around the time that the Nicean Creed was promulgated that the idea of the three unique persons of the Trinity became official.

If Jesus a man, he could have showed his followers that he was serious about living non violently. If Jesus was seen as God incarnated, an idea that was the basis of many "pagan" religions, Jesus' death could have been made to look like a sacrificial offering to a pagan or false God. How did the torture and destruction of the body of Jesus serve God. Did God have to have Jesus treated like a terrorist sympathizer so that he could be tortured and killed without showing that the actions against Jesus were inconsistent with his teachings.

Jesus should not have been treated the way that he was as an offering. Even the pagans treated their sacrificial offerings to the gods with respect. The late Jesuit Priest Richard P. McSorley told me that the church stopped following the teachings of Jesus when the church became institutionalized. It wasn't until the church made the belief in Jesus as God('s son) that his death was not seen as a testament to his nonviolent teachings.

Every Christian Church that has sprung off of the churches of Constantine still believe that Jesus was sacrificed for us. Jesus was actually a sacrifice to the Roman Emperor for the salvation of the Jews that did not see Jesus and his teachings as being nonviolent.

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By ReyHinckleyMay 22, 2006 - 12:33am

Dogmatic debates and the Parable of the Good Samaritan

I think the previous comment is certainly not unfamiliar to any minister, theologian, or even an amateur student of religion, and that Emperor Constantine's first Christian "government" + "religion" formula resulted in a need for a specific line on what was "true doctrine" and what was "heresy." Hence, the "Godhead" and other controversies at Nicea and afterwards. No wonder the founding fathers tossed all that nonsense debate out when they founded this country, as it always created more scism than unity, and far more war than peace.
It is essential to remember in retrospect, rather than drag out old arguments for argument sake, that more dogmatic assertions of "Religious Correctness" and more doctinal squabbling is not the answer to what ails Christians of good faith in America. People arguing and debating about the "proper way to consider the structure of Christ's divinity" will not feed a single hungry child nor help a community to come together and share the totality of the Bible's message of hope, grace, love and universal forgiveness. Doctrine squabbles just seem to give fanatics license to argue about how others should behave based on this or that verse in a rather inconsistent text.
What is interesting about the Catholic Church is that for much of their history they kept obtuse theological questions to the priesthood, but then also turned financial resources towards the allieviation of poverty. My own father, a religious heretic by anybody's standard, was a beneficiary of St. Vincent De Paul's charity providing affordable housing to low income senior citizens. Unfortunately, Pope Benedict these days seems to think questions of dogma more important, making things like the provision of a loving home to orphaned foster children dependent on a doctrinal litmus test of the prospective parents, as we have seen in Massachusetts.
I guess my point is, to the previous comment and to all, let's leave our theoretical religious discussions of things like the "Godhead Debate" to the confines of academic and literary circles on the weekdays, and when we enter church on Sunday with others, do so with a heart open to all no matter what point on the religious map they come from, so long as they come with the intention of joining others in good faith, humility and modesty, hope and love, and belief in the power to God to help us rise above the petty disputes of man and offer grace and forgiveness to all. I think the Bible does say something like that, or am I wrong? Otherwise, we are no different than Right Wing fanatics who claim a monopoly on the truth and preach in a "dogmatically correct" way as if they had a "hotline to God" all their own.
Was Jesus divine? As far as I know, Jesus cited the Good Samaritan as the best model of behavior in the Bible, and that Samaritan guy was no Christian... As "State of Belief" says time and again, and like the parable of the Good Samaritan shows, action to help others in need is a more powerful show of religious committment than all the arguments on dogma one can make.
Just a thought, and keep up the good work on "State of Belief."

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By wally4mediaMay 25, 2006 - 2:49am

"Love one another"

As one who podcasts, I am late in hearing this show, but will be sharing its information with others. I know that my Anglican/Episcopalian rector has been away at convention and the topic of sexuality was sure to come up and the dog poop in the brownie metaphor one of the guests described being used by one preacher was scary.

As a peace and justice activist with one gay God-loving generous wonderful brother, when I hear such remarks and such things about certain fundy groups believing that unruly children should be killed, I am aghast. I was always taught the Golden Rule, and it deals with LOVE and loving one another. And then there is that bit about not judging people. Fundamentalist anything that refuses to honor the right of people to think and believe differently must be challenged and stopped. God speaks to us in different ways at different times and diversity in God's garden is to be treasured. (And unruly children have to be gently taught discipline.)

This show was/is a real eye opener. I didn't realize how bad it had gotten. (Better find my Interfaith Alliance renewal envelope and send it in.)

Keep up the good work! Thanks for the link to Talk2Action.org -- we're in this together. God bless.

Peace Hugs,
Kate Anne
~~
"The God of Peace is never glorified by human violence." -- Thomas Merton

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